FREE Account Opening + No Clearing Fees
Loading...

Talwalkars Better value Fitness Ltd IPO Message Board (Page 11)

Loading...
44. manoj jain |   Link |  Bookmark | April 21, 2010 12:39:08 AM
In my view this is also an Sgjh Ltd & goenka catagory issue( i had avoided both & i'm happy with my decision ). I'm going to avoid this issue. However capital market rating is 45 reasonable for this issue but still i'm fealing valuation much higher. so i'm going to avoid.
43. IPOEXPERT LOOTO IPO LOGO KA PAISA |   Link |  Bookmark | April 21, 2010 12:23:41 AM
wow look at promoters thos who invetsed in 2006 at avereage cost of 22 rs in 2007 at avg cost of 31 rs and those in 2009 at avg cost of 90 rs. This is after bonus of 7 shares for 1 held.

public ko bevfkoof samaj rakha hai kya.
4 saal mein promoters ko 6 guna paisa.
yeh toh shree ganesh jewellery ipo ka bhi baap nikla.
p/e -54 sabse jyada
42. Vinod |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 10:16:40 PM
King Kong Bhaiya - 42, yeh to kuch bhi nahi hai. Mein apna IPO la raha hu "Kangal Govt. of India Limited". Price band Rs. only 1 suitcase.
I guarantee that peoples wil do CRY CRY more than ten times than they are crying in NHPC, NTPC and NMDC.
Govt. to dhire dhire maar rahi hai like NHPC, NTPC and NMDC. But, if you apply in my this IPO you will not live for second IPO or FPO.
Shameless Govt. is again coming to LOOT at maximum rates in SJVNL, SAIL, Hind. Copper, Nalco etc. After IPO / FPO, these will be NHPC, NTPC and NMDC that is confirm and guaranteed.
41. PRINCE |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 10:12:42 PM
HI, GEM IPO FINDER

SIR ,talwalkar ka final primium kya chal raha hai?

finaly aplly kare ya chhod dena chahiye?

please reply sir,,,,,,,,

PRINCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
40. king kong |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 8:52:44 PM
my forthcoming ipo is ,India investment corporation ltd ,price band rs.730 to 760 , NHPC,SHREE GANESH,I.B POWER,R POWER,EMBI POLIMER ke tarah uper say nechay tak sub setting ho gai hi.
39. Ravi, Bangalore |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 8:35:46 PM
Continued from Message # 39
(Go through only if you are day-trader, investors can AVOID reading)

What this 'x' and the 'y' should be, will also be infuenced by various things: strength of the scrip, overall market condition, time of the day, your risk-taking apetite and how deep your pockets are.

Money Management

Setting yourself reasonable targets is no good if you do not stick to them. This is where stiff money management comes in.

If after taking a position on Kirloskar Brothers you see the price sliding down and down, get out! Get out as soon as the price goes down to 'x'. Don't wait around for it to come back in your favor because the odds are against it.
If on the other hand, you see the price moving up, do not do anything till it reaches your target of 'y'. At this point, you have to take a "Mid-Point Stand" on whether to sell at 'y' or hold on, keeping in mind that if things turn bad, profit already earned will turn into loss.

Mid-Point Stand

For all stages of both bull and bear markets, you should take a "Mid-Point Stand" when things are going in your favour. When they are not -- simply get out at your stoploss and look elsewhere.

Here you need to know the overall context in which your buy/sell signals are being generated. Taking a mid-point stand requires that you pay more than a little attention to non-technical indicators, to make it possible to take a long enough look ahead to make your view a sound one.

For example, on the day the Manmohan Singh govt. won its trust vote in Parliament in Aug'08 all stocks were going up and up even before the official verdict was out. On a day like that it will be foolish to sell at 'y' if your timings were right.

A trust vote does not take place everyday, so there will be very few occasions like this where you can take a mid-point stand with certainty.

However, there will be times in the stock market when prices changes in big chunks, very rapidly. If you happen to be in the middle of such a rally, and you've been able to spot it correctly, you can take a mid-point stand. In all other cases, you simply must exit at 'y' and be happy and content with your profit.

This is sound money management. Without following sound money management principles, there is no chance of success in intraday trading the markets.

Staying out

On certain days all stocks will look out of shape. Nothing is happening. Everything is range-bound and moving sideways. Rises are small, insignificant and cannot sustain. This is a day to avoid.
Stay out. Do not take a position on any scrip on that day. No place for hope, fear, doubt or greed.

The act of staying out is just as much a positive action as buying or selling, and, in fact, requires more courage at times.
38. Ravi, Bangalore |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 8:26:27 PM
TRADING GUIDELINES

Remember: You only make money if someone else loses it. If you are not fully committed you will lose money, and someone else will take it away!

Trading is a serious business. You will need (1) a good trading method and (2) good money management policies. You will also need four important weapons: Confidence, Discipline, Focus and Patience. I will explain these requirements in detail.

Objectives

But, before that, lets get some basics right. As an intraday trader, what are your objectives for the day? To make profits. As much as possible. Whether the market is going up or down. Bull or Bear, you want your daily profits.

Very Good. Now, let us look a little more closely. In real terms, right at the beginning, you should be doing these:
Start with a fixed investment. How much? An amount you are ready to lose in the stock market. If you suddenly lose the whole of this amount, your normal life-style should not be disrupted.

This amount can be as low as Rs. 15,000/- to begin with. The higher the better. But, anything below 10K is not worth it. For this discussion, we will assume you have started with an investment of 15K.

This means, with the 4-times margins that on-line brokers allow, you can buy stocks worth Rs. 60,000/- for intraday trading.

Now, if you had taken this 15K on interest from the open (unsecured) market, you would be paying about 5%-7% interest per month. That is, 700-1000 per month. In the stock market, you have to earn at least 5 times that amount: 3500-5000 per month. So, set yourself a target: You have to earn Rs. 300/- per day. With an average of 20 working days per month, this means 6000. There is a little margin here to take care of the 'rainy' day.

200 is the daily figure. You should now forget about your monthly targets. Simply concentrate on your daily 300.
Suppose you have been suggested a scrip whose price is around 600 each. Total purchase price cannot exceed 60K. So, you buy 100 shares.

Here I've made a very important statement: once your budget is fixed, you will not get disturbed by the price of the share you are trading today. If price is around 600 each, you buy 100 shares, so that total purchase price does not exceed 60K. If the price is 1000 each you buy 60. If the price is 70 each, you buy 800 shares.

The example given here is on going LONG. Same points that are made here also apply if you are going SHORT. If the market is going up, look to go LONG. If the market is falling, look for SHORTING opportunities.

Once the number of shares has been fixed, you will need to calculate how many points increase or decrease will be required to meet your target. On a LONG example, if you've taken 60 of 1000 each you will need an increase of 6 each to meet your daily requirement (60 x 6 = 360). The extra is to take care of brokerage, etc.

In this example, you've taken a position on 100 shares. Since your daily target is a profit of 300, you should be looking to sell and square up this trade when price reaches 603 (3 x 100 = 300).

Similarly, if you look to buy a scrip worth 95 each, buy 600 shares and look for a profit of about 0.50p per share. (600 x 0.5 = 300)

If you can make more than the required 300 from your first trade of the day, very good and well played! But do not get carried away. Most importantly, never ever risk away today's income. You MUST take home today's 300 first.
Do not try to insulate yourself in advance for a possible bad day tomorrow. Tomorrow will be a new day, with new possibilities, which may be even better than today. We'll see about all that tomorrow. Today you take your 300 and go home.

You might get another opportunity with another stock later in the same day. What is to be done in this situation? Depends on your situation at that point of time, with respect to your total earning in the earlier part of the day.

Never look at your monthly figure. Only consider today's position. If you have made 400 earlier, you can take a risk with the extra 100 you've earned. Or, if you have only made 100 in the first trade, look to make another 200 with this opportunity.

But, if you have actually made that 400 in the first trade today, it is strongly advised that you call it quits. Keep the extra profit. Don't let someone else take away this money. Take the rest of the day off. Enjoy!

If your investment is different from the 15K in this example, all the calculated figures will change proportionately. Examples are given for taking LONG positions. Same will apply in the opposite direction when you go SHORT, daily target remaining the same.

Just consider this: on an investment of 15K, you stand to make 4K per month. You double your money in less than 4 months. And it looks pretty easy! Increase of 3 for a stock of 600 value is not a big deal at all. A rise of 0.50p for a stock with value of 95 each is also commonplace. Even in the worst of days. So, where is the catch? Why do people lose money at the stock market? The catch is not in the WHY?, or the HOW?, but in the WHERE? There is also a WHEN?

Where?

Finding the right stock that will rise from 600 to 603, or from 97 to 97.50 on that particular day is the challenge. Finding that one amongst the 1000+ available at NSE is where most people falter. People put their money at the wrong places only to see losses.

Here you can look for stocks which are in medium-term uptrend. If the stock is in uptrend / down-trend in medium-term, then it is better to do intra-day in such stocks. Brokerage House reports gives you stocks with medium-term trend. If the medium-term trend is strong, GO LONG or if medium-term trend is weak, GO SHORT for intra-day.

When?

Like I've said at the beginning, Intraday Trading is a serious business. And after you know which stock to invest in, this 'When?' is a vital point in that serious business. This mainly deals with your entry and exit points.

As mentioned earlier, to control these points you will need (1) a good trading method and (2) good money management policies. You will also need four important weapons: Confidence, Discipline, Focus and Patience.

TRADING METHODS

Every trade you put on, you should be prepared to lose. So, make sure to place your stop-loss order. Otherwise, what would have been a small loss turns into a big loss, throwing the entire risk/reward ratio out of gear against you.

Where should the stop be placed? The simple answer is: where you think you can absorb the loss. Suppose you go long and buy 50 of Kirloskar Brothers @ 325, with your 15K budget, and you are mentally prepared to take a loss of 300 at this time of the day, so keep your stop loss for Kirloskar Brothers at 319. Back calculate to arrive at a figure you are comfortable with. Remember: the loss, if it happens, will be going away from your 15K capital.

If the market goes in your favor once you have taken position and the stop-loss is in place, then you need a set of rules that will allow you to exit the market profitably.

This poses a real dilemma. If you exit too soon, you will secure a small profit, but miss out on all those big moves that occur (and the big profits that go with them). On the other hand, if you wait too long to exit, the market may reverse and take away all of your open profits and even put you into a loss position.

Because of this, you will absolutely need an exit strategy that is effective: forward calculate and decide on a profit margin as explained earlier. Be realistic. Do not be influenced by emotions like hope, fear, doubt and greed. For this trade, with respect to your profit calculation, set yourself an initial target: you will exit Kirloskar Brothers as soon as it reaches 380.

Setting these two targets -- STOPLOSS: sell if the price goes down to 'x' and EXIT: sell if the price rises to 'y' is good trading method.
What this 'x' and the 'y' should be, will also be infuenced by various things: strength of the scrip, overall market condition, time of the day, your risk-taking apetite and how deep your pockets are.

Money Management

Setting yourself reasonable targets is no good if you do not stick to them. This is where stiff money management comes in.

If after taking a position on Kirloskar Brothers you see the price sliding down and down, get out! Get out as soon as the price goes down to 'x'. Don't wait around for it to come back in your favor because the odds are against it.
If on the other hand, you see the price moving up, do not do anything till it reaches your target of 'y'. At this point, you have to take a "Mid-Point Stand" on whether to sell at 'y' or hold on, keeping in mind that if things turn bad, profit already earned will turn into loss.

Mid-Point Stand

For all stages of both bull and bear markets, you should take a "Mid-Point Stand" when things are going in your favour. When they are not -- simply get out at your stoploss and look elsewhere.

Here you need to know the overall context in which your buy/sell signals are being generated. Taking a mid-point stand requires that you pay more than a little attention to non-technical indicators, to make it possible to take a long enough look ahead to make your view a sound one.

For example, on the day the Manmohan Singh govt. won its trust vote in Parliament in Aug'08 all stocks were going up and up even before the official verdict was out. On a day like that it will be foolish to sell at 'y' if your timings were right.

A trust vote does not take place everyday, so there will be very few occasions like this where you can take a mid-point stand with certainty.

However, there will be times in the stock market when prices changes in big chunks, very rapidly. If you happen to be in the middle of such a rally, and you've been able to spot it correctly, you can take a mid-point stand. In all other cases, you simply must exit at 'y' and be happy and content with your profit.

This is sound money management. Without following sound money management principles, there is no chance of success in intraday trading the markets.

Staying out

On certain days all stocks will look out of shape. Nothing is happening. Everything is range-bound and moving sideways. Rises are small, insignificant and cannot sustain. This is a day to avoid. Stay out. Do not take a position on any scrip on that day. No place for hope, fear, doubt or greed.

The act of staying out is just as much a positive action as buying or selling, and, in fact, requires more courage at times.
37. Saharanpuri |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 8:14:06 PM
SP TULSIAN SAYS AVOID.
Apr 20, 2010 02:45 pm
Look for “better value” elsewhere



Talwalkars Better Value Fitness is entering the capital market on 21st April 2010, with a public issue of Rs.60.50 lakh equity shares of Rs.10 each, in the band of Rs.123 to Rs.128 per share. Thank god, atleast band is quite narrow with range of just Rs.5.



Talwalkar is a known name in Mumbai city for operating gymnasium, but is it worth Rs.300 crores of market capitalization or Rs.360 crores, of enterprise value? This is in the backdrop of the promoters of the company, operating about 11 gyms under the similar brand in their closely held companies and 13 gyms operated by the rival factions of the Talwalkar family. This is also, asking for an average valuation of Rs.4.25 crores per gym, against estimated cost of Rs.1.86 crores, for setting up a new gym.



The company is presently having 58 health clubs, in 28 cities of 12 states and is now planning to set up 27 new owned health clubs, with each, costing Rs.1.86 crores. The company also intends to mobilize Rs.20.60 crores, for repayment of part of its unsecured loans, which were at Rs.31.33 crores, as at 31-12-09. So exit is given to JV and Associates by repaying their loans from IPO proceeds.



The present equity base of the company is quite high at Rs.18.07 crores, which will rise to Rs.24.12 crores, post IPO. Infact, company issued shares at Rs.158.19 and Rs.222 per share (adjusted for FV of Rs.10) on 12-01-06 and 07-12-07. Even on 05-10-09, Shares were issued at Rs.635 per share, to the promoters of the company. So to compensate them, the company has issued bonus shares in the ratio of 7 shares for every 1 share held. Now that is what one can ‘better value’!



Coming on its financials, for FY09, it had a topline of Rs.59.42 crores, with PAT at Rs.5.69 crores, which has been its best ever performance, resulting in an EPS of Rs.3.15, on its present equity base. For 9 months ending Dec.09, total income was at Rs.48.82 crores, with PAT at Rs.4.29 crores, giving an annualized EPS of Rs.3.15 only. This indicates a fall in its margin in the current year with not much increase in its topline.



If we take an average issue price at Rs.125 per share, share is being issued at a PE multiple of about 40 times and at a PBV of 5.50 times. Even topline is being multiplied by over 5.50 times, on its EV basis. Asking for a valuation of Rs.4.25 crores per health club is exorbitant. This kind of valuations would not have been justified, even for a company having over 250 gyms or expected to have a market cap of over Rs.1,500 crores. So how this can be valid and justified for a mid size company like this?



Advise to look for value elsewhere and not to spoil your health by joining this IPO.

36. mr.india |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 7:08:14 PM
ha....ha....ha....avoid
35. thunder |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 6:24:36 PM
seeing the fate of all recent 3 star rated IPOs and to top it its 123-128 Rs range..it seems better to avoid "Talwalkars" and wait patiently for some sound fundamental upcoming IPOs like Gujarat Pipavav Port,JP infratech etc
34. sagar |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 5:16:49 PM
Hi, All b a ready to build helth.its better opportunity to success life, i am not joking helth is welth.
33. ajayshare |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 5:14:36 PM
We should hold money in bank. In bank no risk and do wait for good ipo.
32. sreedhar |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 5:06:10 PM
All 3 IPOs exorbitantly priced.Avoid all & dont say afterwards oho what to do I applied hoping some operator will run the shares.These 3 IPOs deserve Nil subscription.I am avoiding all the three.Talwalkars GMP is already showing discount.Wait for PNC Infra,Glenmark generics,Jaypee & SJVNL(If discount given)
31. prathmesh |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 4:18:14 PM
i think talwalkar will made a good debut on the day of listing . it's a small ipo operator bhagayega
30. Nagamee |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 3:48:23 PM
Gymwala thanx 4 the information. Dont File for your IPO now may be if they are successful you may get your payments on time,Hehehe. Retail investors beware of this overvalued IPOs. This trio looks quite sticky!
Learn from Shree Ganaesh, Goenka, etc.
29. Body Builder |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 3:06:08 PM
Ha ha hah haha
gym wale ko ab body building se jyada interest money building me hai.......
28. GYMWALA |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 2:57:29 PM
I OWN 3 GYM IN DELHI . SHALL I COME UP WITH IPO.
I ALSO SUPPLY HEALTH SUPPLEMENTS TO TALWALKARS AND THEY NEVER EVER PAY MONEY ON TIME.

IF THIS COMPANY MANAGE TO FOOL PEOPLE AND SUCCESFULLY GOT THE IPO THROUGH I WILL ALSO FILE PAPERS FOR MY COMPANY TO COME WITH IPO. I AM SURE PEOPLE WILL SUBSCRIBE AND I WILL COME AT HALF DISCOUNT IN VALUATION THAT TALWAKAR IS COMING WITH
27. ADVICE |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 2:24:18 PM
MERI KIRANE(RETAIL MERCHANT OF GRAINS)KI DUKAN HE..MUZE BHI IPO LANA HE..KYA KARNA HE...


JIM VALE BHI IPO LANE LAGE...WOH BHI ITNE HIGH PRICE PE....
RIL KE P/E SE BHI JYADA P/E HE....

MUZE LAGATA HE YAHI COMPANY HE JO NEXT TO MICROSOFT, INTEL ,SHELL KE BAAD HE.
26. Rama |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 11:40:03 AM
I think instead of taking risk with talwalkars, it is better to buy ganesh jewellers(price of which is allready discovered around 150-155). Downside in this stock is limited whereas in talwalkars we dont have any idea. those high risk takers can apply to talwalkars, but for people with medium risk appetite can buy Ganesh Jewellers(better risk-reward situation).

Discl: I have 150 Ganesh shares at 164.
25. TR |   Link |  Bookmark | April 20, 2010 11:00:30 AM
hahaha fanil you seems to be insider for this company.

comparing with cox and kings and jubiliant . cox and kings have profits of more than 40 crores talwalkar has merely 3 crore.

jubiliant have huge demand for pizaa from all companies and household
talawalkar is a big flop even if gets subscribed by 20 times it will list below issue price as there is no valuation in it and also in hot weather who will visit their gym putting further pressure on there revenue